As an immigrant from India myself, this is only part of the story. The other part is that there are certain uniquely American values that are repulsive to most non-Americans (especially those from non-developed non-Western countries) which are guarded primarily by the Republican party.
Some of these are:
1. Gun rights
2. Free speech absolutism (many other countries have exceptions for hate speech)
3. Opposition to ANY abortion
4. Individualism, or "lifting by bootstraps" approach, as expressed in opposition to government healthcare
5. Overall Christian worldview which seeps into things like supporting creationism
Many Indian immigrants are against at least one of the above points.
Indian conservative values are very different:
1. Family centred rather than individual centred
2. Religious but not Christian
3. Safety prioritized over risk taking
4. Conformist ("keep your head down and study")
In general, I don't feel that there is a natural connection to the Republican party at all. Trying to court Indian immigrants at least might not be effective. And according to you, Indians are closest to the Republicans!
I've always wondered why in Canada the immigrants (400k per year) mostly come from conservative leaning countries, but vote overwhelmingly NDP + Liberal
Especially because our conservative party doesn't really have the same right-wing hostility/rhetoric that some Republicans have in the USA, like, if you were drawing that same cartoon, the Canadian conservative party wouldn't be pushing the immigrants to the other parties, I don't think. The immigrants would just be jumping away from the conservative party, into the open arms of the Liberals + NDP.
The most plausible explanation I can come up with is that immigrants to Canada prefer the Liberals + NDP because they promise more handouts
GOP leaders spent 50 years telling its voters they were wrong and they needed to be more pro immigration to win over Hispanics. Most anti immigration GOP candidate in recent memory (Trump) is more popular with Hispanics than any other GOP pol before him. Obviously Hispanic =/= immigrant but would seem to fly in the face of some of the analysis here.
I used the be “right wing” and against “illegal” immigration. That typically is nonsense once you ask if they want to reduce “legal” immigration as well, they typically do. What turned me was initially Milton Friedman and the idea that illegal immigration is better because they can’t take advantage of welfare. Then seeing the studies that all of the crime, welfare, and steal jobs arguments are just either fear mongering or the desire to not look into it further. Then I became libertarian and started to believe restricting immigration was immoral.
Building on Sriram's comment, I think that the phrase "All the main immigrant groups are socially conservative" is misleading. All of those groups may agree with conservatives on being, say, relatively pro-traditional-marriage and less pro-LGBT, but the underlying cultures that they seek to Conserve are different from traditional American culture (and different from each other, for that matter).
Or, to borrow Scott Alexander's terms from his piece " How the West was Won," US conservatives and immigrants may all be opposed to various aspects of Universal Culture, but that doesn't mean they all love each other's Particular Cultures. This is one example where a "political spectrum" model is very unhelpful. Traditionalist Christians and Traditionalist Muslims would probably both be placed on the "right" side of such a spectrum, but that does *not* mean that they believe the same things, nor that they will get along if one group immigrates into a country where the other is well-established.
Thank you for so clearly pointing out the blackmail: "support immigration, or else I will not vote for you and will work at demographically replacing you".
Bryan is an open-borders extremist and so maybe that's not why he's going to look hard at this, but I'd like a lot more evidence and causal connection to this post that a single poll saying "Republicans don't like illegal immigration" as justification for "Immigrants are right to fear voting republican".
Why would a legal immigrant (who's gone through considerable time and expense to follow the rules, no matter how stupid) support illegal immigration?
The standard economic story is the reverse. Once someone acquires a right and becomes an incumbent, they tend to want to reduce competition. This is true in the labor market and everywhere else.
Bryan needs to tell a compelling story why it's not true here, and he's not even trying. Are Republicans actually against legal immigration and hostile to legal immigrants? That's not proven by saying Republicans are hostile to illegal immigrants.
People on the right oppose immigration because they believe immigrants drive down wages for natives (this may be true for low-skill natives, at least in the short run). Right-wingers are more tribal than left-wingers.
Right-wingers often welcome highly educated or skilled immigrants, when they perceive the added human capital outweighs competitive effects on highly educated/skilled natives.
Right-wingers fear cultural dilution; immigrants who appear likely to assimilate into American culture are welcomed far more than others.
If your point were correct, then groups of immigrants' political beliefs ought to vary, both cross-sectionally and intertemporally, based on natives' / the GOP's attitudes towards each immigrant group. But this is not, as far as I can tell, a pattern we see -- rather, immigrants' political beliefs track country of origin much more closely (for example, Cuban vs. Venezuelan). So, QED, your point is not correct.
>If you’re right-wing, I know you’ll be tempted to reject this cartoon in a hundred different ways. But does it, too, not possess a kernel of truth?
It doesn't matter if it's true or not.
*We shouldn't have to be changing our views to accomodate foreigners in order to avoid losing political power*
The fact that we have to change our beliefs and actions to avoid offending people who are diluting our political power is precisely the problem in the first place.
>If conservatives can offer a warm welcome to outcast left-wing intellectuals, why not extend the same hospitality to the millions of apolitical non-intellectuals who want to build a life here?
Because they're not conservatives, they will never be conservatives, and we can never compete with leftists offering them welfare statism.
And then there's the fact that if Americans become a minority, then this countries ceases to be meaningfully America anymore.
Diversity undermines social cohesion and social trust, this is replicated research finding. And open borders would make us vastly more diverse along almost all dimensions.
Do you imagine there's something magical about American soil? No? Then why would these people who failed to build successful countries themselves be able to run America successfully?
Some of what Bryan suggests may be happening in the UK, but with the added detail of tension between different immigrant groups. Both British-Indian and British-Pakistani voters used to be heavily pro-Labour (the leftwing party), but British-Indian voters have increasingly moved towards the Conservatives (right-wing party in theory).
Partly this is due to income and education consideration (British-Indians have done better than most other groups) but also down to specific political factors. The Labour party has increasingly explicitly sided with Pakistan on issues like Kashmir, alienating some British-Indians.
So another 'lesson for the right' might be to make suitable choices in the realm of international politics as many members of immigrant-descended groups seem to are about this a great deal. Probably there is something like this going on with Cuban emigres in Florida and elsewhere?
As a legal immigrant myself, I don't really feel any animus towards me personally from the right. I have several times have conservatives ask me if I resent the illegal immigrants, clearly hoping for an answer in the affirmative, but I haven't felt they objected to my presence.
I have an alternative theory. PJ O'Rourke said that Democrats have smart candidates and dumb voters, while the Republicans have smart voters and dumb candidates. Politics are messed up everywhere, but they seem marginally more messed up in the US, and the Republicans seems marginally more messed up than the Democrats. You have pointed out yourself many times that one driving philosophy of the American right is hatred of the American left. It's not an impressive thing to watch as a newcomer. Maybe it's just that the GOP really is the stupid party.
I disagree that right of center people are against immigration.
They just want a different set of rules for immigration. Most right of center people would agree with a Canadian style set of rules (based on points), or the Australian one.
By the way, there are commenters complaining about immigrant attitudes in the US. Try to immigrate into Australia and see how difficult it is.
I don't get it. The conversation is about "open borders" and enforcement of immigration laws. If anything, I see people on the right embracing people who immigrate here legally and become productive citizens. What they opposed is simply letting anyone walk over the border unvetted. If the left "swallowed their pride" and took the first move, a productive conversation could likely be had about securing the border and then deciding how many people to allow in legally and how to prioritize them.
As an immigrant from India myself, this is only part of the story. The other part is that there are certain uniquely American values that are repulsive to most non-Americans (especially those from non-developed non-Western countries) which are guarded primarily by the Republican party.
Some of these are:
1. Gun rights
2. Free speech absolutism (many other countries have exceptions for hate speech)
3. Opposition to ANY abortion
4. Individualism, or "lifting by bootstraps" approach, as expressed in opposition to government healthcare
5. Overall Christian worldview which seeps into things like supporting creationism
Many Indian immigrants are against at least one of the above points.
Indian conservative values are very different:
1. Family centred rather than individual centred
2. Religious but not Christian
3. Safety prioritized over risk taking
4. Conformist ("keep your head down and study")
In general, I don't feel that there is a natural connection to the Republican party at all. Trying to court Indian immigrants at least might not be effective. And according to you, Indians are closest to the Republicans!
I've always wondered why in Canada the immigrants (400k per year) mostly come from conservative leaning countries, but vote overwhelmingly NDP + Liberal
Especially because our conservative party doesn't really have the same right-wing hostility/rhetoric that some Republicans have in the USA, like, if you were drawing that same cartoon, the Canadian conservative party wouldn't be pushing the immigrants to the other parties, I don't think. The immigrants would just be jumping away from the conservative party, into the open arms of the Liberals + NDP.
The most plausible explanation I can come up with is that immigrants to Canada prefer the Liberals + NDP because they promise more handouts
GOP leaders spent 50 years telling its voters they were wrong and they needed to be more pro immigration to win over Hispanics. Most anti immigration GOP candidate in recent memory (Trump) is more popular with Hispanics than any other GOP pol before him. Obviously Hispanic =/= immigrant but would seem to fly in the face of some of the analysis here.
I used the be “right wing” and against “illegal” immigration. That typically is nonsense once you ask if they want to reduce “legal” immigration as well, they typically do. What turned me was initially Milton Friedman and the idea that illegal immigration is better because they can’t take advantage of welfare. Then seeing the studies that all of the crime, welfare, and steal jobs arguments are just either fear mongering or the desire to not look into it further. Then I became libertarian and started to believe restricting immigration was immoral.
I’m glad to read your posting. I’m a pro-immigration conservative. Very pro. Usually silent about it.
As far as govt. benefits, no non citizen should receive any largesse except for humanitarian reasons.
That said, immigrants come to America to work. And work they do. And mind their own business. Unlike the vast majority of my fellow citizens.
Building on Sriram's comment, I think that the phrase "All the main immigrant groups are socially conservative" is misleading. All of those groups may agree with conservatives on being, say, relatively pro-traditional-marriage and less pro-LGBT, but the underlying cultures that they seek to Conserve are different from traditional American culture (and different from each other, for that matter).
Or, to borrow Scott Alexander's terms from his piece " How the West was Won," US conservatives and immigrants may all be opposed to various aspects of Universal Culture, but that doesn't mean they all love each other's Particular Cultures. This is one example where a "political spectrum" model is very unhelpful. Traditionalist Christians and Traditionalist Muslims would probably both be placed on the "right" side of such a spectrum, but that does *not* mean that they believe the same things, nor that they will get along if one group immigrates into a country where the other is well-established.
Thank you for so clearly pointing out the blackmail: "support immigration, or else I will not vote for you and will work at demographically replacing you".
Bryan is an open-borders extremist and so maybe that's not why he's going to look hard at this, but I'd like a lot more evidence and causal connection to this post that a single poll saying "Republicans don't like illegal immigration" as justification for "Immigrants are right to fear voting republican".
Why would a legal immigrant (who's gone through considerable time and expense to follow the rules, no matter how stupid) support illegal immigration?
The standard economic story is the reverse. Once someone acquires a right and becomes an incumbent, they tend to want to reduce competition. This is true in the labor market and everywhere else.
Bryan needs to tell a compelling story why it's not true here, and he's not even trying. Are Republicans actually against legal immigration and hostile to legal immigrants? That's not proven by saying Republicans are hostile to illegal immigrants.
People on the right oppose immigration because they believe immigrants drive down wages for natives (this may be true for low-skill natives, at least in the short run). Right-wingers are more tribal than left-wingers.
Right-wingers often welcome highly educated or skilled immigrants, when they perceive the added human capital outweighs competitive effects on highly educated/skilled natives.
Right-wingers fear cultural dilution; immigrants who appear likely to assimilate into American culture are welcomed far more than others.
If your point were correct, then groups of immigrants' political beliefs ought to vary, both cross-sectionally and intertemporally, based on natives' / the GOP's attitudes towards each immigrant group. But this is not, as far as I can tell, a pattern we see -- rather, immigrants' political beliefs track country of origin much more closely (for example, Cuban vs. Venezuelan). So, QED, your point is not correct.
>If you’re right-wing, I know you’ll be tempted to reject this cartoon in a hundred different ways. But does it, too, not possess a kernel of truth?
It doesn't matter if it's true or not.
*We shouldn't have to be changing our views to accomodate foreigners in order to avoid losing political power*
The fact that we have to change our beliefs and actions to avoid offending people who are diluting our political power is precisely the problem in the first place.
>If conservatives can offer a warm welcome to outcast left-wing intellectuals, why not extend the same hospitality to the millions of apolitical non-intellectuals who want to build a life here?
Because they're not conservatives, they will never be conservatives, and we can never compete with leftists offering them welfare statism.
And then there's the fact that if Americans become a minority, then this countries ceases to be meaningfully America anymore.
Diversity undermines social cohesion and social trust, this is replicated research finding. And open borders would make us vastly more diverse along almost all dimensions.
Do you imagine there's something magical about American soil? No? Then why would these people who failed to build successful countries themselves be able to run America successfully?
Some of what Bryan suggests may be happening in the UK, but with the added detail of tension between different immigrant groups. Both British-Indian and British-Pakistani voters used to be heavily pro-Labour (the leftwing party), but British-Indian voters have increasingly moved towards the Conservatives (right-wing party in theory).
Partly this is due to income and education consideration (British-Indians have done better than most other groups) but also down to specific political factors. The Labour party has increasingly explicitly sided with Pakistan on issues like Kashmir, alienating some British-Indians.
So another 'lesson for the right' might be to make suitable choices in the realm of international politics as many members of immigrant-descended groups seem to are about this a great deal. Probably there is something like this going on with Cuban emigres in Florida and elsewhere?
As a legal immigrant myself, I don't really feel any animus towards me personally from the right. I have several times have conservatives ask me if I resent the illegal immigrants, clearly hoping for an answer in the affirmative, but I haven't felt they objected to my presence.
I have an alternative theory. PJ O'Rourke said that Democrats have smart candidates and dumb voters, while the Republicans have smart voters and dumb candidates. Politics are messed up everywhere, but they seem marginally more messed up in the US, and the Republicans seems marginally more messed up than the Democrats. You have pointed out yourself many times that one driving philosophy of the American right is hatred of the American left. It's not an impressive thing to watch as a newcomer. Maybe it's just that the GOP really is the stupid party.
I disagree that right of center people are against immigration.
They just want a different set of rules for immigration. Most right of center people would agree with a Canadian style set of rules (based on points), or the Australian one.
By the way, there are commenters complaining about immigrant attitudes in the US. Try to immigrate into Australia and see how difficult it is.
I'm triggered because the army summoned by Aragorn is know as the "Oathbreakers," which is an obvious sly reference to the Oathkeepers!
Seriously, I think both cartoons have more than a kernel of truth. Immigration is such a boon for this country.
I don't get it. The conversation is about "open borders" and enforcement of immigration laws. If anything, I see people on the right embracing people who immigrate here legally and become productive citizens. What they opposed is simply letting anyone walk over the border unvetted. If the left "swallowed their pride" and took the first move, a productive conversation could likely be had about securing the border and then deciding how many people to allow in legally and how to prioritize them.